We found 0 results matching your criteria. Screws for your subfloor should be selected very carefully. However, keep in mind that not all nails will provide the same level of quality or durability that screws do. It also increases the stiffness of the subflooring, which usually results in fewer repairs and warping down the line. Repair or replace as necessary. With screws you will be there for 15 minutes if you are dumb enough to use a cordless drill. While the Robertson features four contact points, the Torx has 6. So, the only thing keeping them secure is the pressure of the material (typically wood) around the shank when installed. Looking for a super tough screw that can withstand even the roughest conditions? Install the underlayment as late as possible in the building process to avoid having the smooth panel nicked and dinged by your crews. Thus, driving the screws out when necessary is far easier than for the other drives. When you compare the two, nailing is more economical than using screws. A coarse thread will have thicker spirals, making them cut through the wood easier and grab on tightly. I started HomeInspectionInsider.com to help people better understand the home inspection process and answer questions about homeownership and home maintenance. Gluing your subfloor down can help prevent unwanted squeaks and noise when you walk on the floor. Protect edges to avoid damage to the tongue-and-groove profile. He has worked in R&D, manufacturing and sales throughout his career in the building products industry. Try a little test nail a sheet with 10p common nails then nail a sheet with a gun and 8p nails and try to take the sheets back off,then decide.Vince Carbone, Riverside Builders Franklin NY ICQ #47917652. They may or may not use glue as well; depends on the crew. 1934, Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT. You should also make sure that you are leaving about " between the underlayment and the wall. They are not. Therefore, they are easier to work with than the common Phillips drive screws that often slip. Drilling is time-consuming, and if you can find a way of bypassing the process, the better. CAG is right - You really opened up a can of worms. Thus, for many people, it is the most convenient option. Hammering nails will destroy the soft plywood or OSB. Rebuilding an exterior deck is it better to use screws or nails? Steel screws are also not overpriced despite their significantly high value regarding strength and durability. Once the adhesive hardens, does it matter what the secruting fastner is? A screw, however, will hold, thanks to its threads. Also, note that there is little chance of slipping due to the increased contact area. A tree fell right in front of me -- and I didn't hear it. Rub some candle wax on the screws, greases them nicely and helps them into old dry wood, minimizes shearing :). Shear strength refers to the ability of a fastener or other construction element to withstand lateral, or side to side, pressures: Think of wind blowing against a house. Between using nails or screws to put down a subfloor, screws are more durable and have the capacity to stay and hold longer than nails. You might need to do this at some point when you want to replace your subfloor. When securing OSB or plywood subflooring, you should use a screw every 8 inches along the floor joist or truss. If using nails for subfloor installation, stick with ring-shank nails; smooth nails may withdraw easier, leading to squeaks. You'll want to factor in the changes in your subfloor when selecting either screws or nails for your project. Below Ill try to answer some of the most common ones that you might have about putting down a subfloor using screws or nails. We have enlisted several vital considerations to make when choosing plywood screws. Screwing the subfloor by yourself using a regular screw can take a ton of extra time and is usually unnecessary with the many alternatives available. Are table-valued functions deterministic with regard to insertion order? When did they start using screws? (Galvanized screws or nails will work fine, but the pneumatic stapler will shave time off installation). Nails are usually the fastening method that works best for putting down a subfloor, but it depends on your situation. So far, we have recommended shiny and golden-colored kinds of screws. In this blog post, we will discuss the proper specifications to follow when selecting the fasteners. It's a nail that misses the joist. They are also available in a variety of sizes. A tape measure (Remember to measure twice and cut once!) Here's the main reason why you should use them while installing a subfloor: To provide a long-lasting and strong hold between your underlayment and subfloor. Sub-floors are exposed to heat and cold throughout the year. Please browse our large stock of John 3:16. You're going through this effort to make it right. Ultimately, the decision is up to you and your budget. Screws would be the more 'sure' solution, but if your nailer can handle ribbed nails like this: We were just advised by a great contractor that screw & glue are definitely the best. It will cost more and also requires more expertise to install screws, but it will be worth all the investment as your subfloor will be creak-proof for so long. They can be used in almost all cases, except for when the fastener needs to disappear (here youll want to use. This is a dialog window which overlays the main content of the page. Be sure to place all perimeter fasteners 3/8 inchback from the nearest panel edge; this will help reduce the chance of edge swell. To install a floated subfloor system, first place a layer of plywood subfloor panels with the edges parallel to the wall. Get Pro Builder in your inbox. Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. If nail or screw heads are sticking up, drive them deeper. Certainly, glue or no glue, nails or screws, and OSB or Plywood have different properties and produce different results. Carpet installers show up tomorrow :). Again, using nails to attach plywood isnt ideal because screws are typically better, but framing nails are your best option if you absolutely must. However, if you made a mistake, you will have to repeat steps 1 and 2. By firmly holding down the subfloor, you can ensure that your floors will be quiet for years to come. Senco 08200Y Screw for Subfloor - Quick Installation, Lasting Hold Review 2. 8d ringshank would be fine. The type of screws you ideally use is dependent on the thickness of the subfloor. Structural screws have completely replaced lag bolts and large nails for structural fastening, given their high failure strength. If the principal concern is preventing two materials from pulling apart, then screws are the better fastener. Jaz C Carlonious When you're given a three hour window to do a 5 hour job, make a bigger window. Self-drilling screws These screws have a design feature that allows them to drill into the subfloor without having pre-drilled holes like most other screws do. I agree completely with Mike Smith,glue and nail,we use framing guns with 8p nails.3/4" advantex. Should I use nails or screws to refasten my subfloor to the joists? They possess a sharp end that seamlessly drives into the wood without the need to apply excessive force. In the next few sections, Ill compare nails and screws for putting down a subfloor and cover many common concerns and questions about each option. They are not. Note that there are different types of threads, but in our case, we are only interested in the roughness or the smoothness bit. Fasten the subfloor boards in place using screws or nails. The few hand nailers left generally use 2" ring-shank. Some nails like stainless steel nails are higher quality and are well worth the price in the end to maintain the longevity of your sub flooring. Keep cover open and away from the sides and bottom of the panels to allow for air circulation. Air nails are not only faster than screws but also more convenient for quick installations to make sure that no time is wasted on the project at hand. Choosing a screw or nail will contribute to whether your sub flooring will squeak or not. This can lead to weaker connections, an inability to withstand the burden reliably, warping during periods of expansion and contraction. By that time the glue may have skinned and you will have squeaks. Also, nails are relatively cheaper than screws. Weve explained that screws are head and shoulders above nails in plywood subfloor projects. If the spacing is wider than 1/8 inch, it could lead to movement and noise. However, removing nails can be tedious and damage the subfloor material if youre not careful. Youll want to use #8 1-1/2 inch wood screws spaced 8 inches apart to secure a 5/8 OSB subfloor to the floor joist or floor truss. If the plywood is quite dense in thickness, you can use a number 8 weight drywall screw. A few other rules, the fasteners need to be every 4" on the edges, 6 to 8" in the field. To begin this process, you need to have a layout and plan where the nails need to go in. COPYRIGHT 2023 PROFESSIONAL BUILDER. 3) Fasteners must recess 1/16" below the surface, penetrate 75-90% of the sub-floor assembly, and not protrude through the bottom. construction screws and ring shank, bright, sinker framing, finish, and roofing nails, to ensure you have the best materials to get the job done! Please contact us at (406) 752-5253 and our knowledgeable customer service representatives will be happy to assist you. After some time, the plywood will start moving as the binding joint is already loose. SawStop's Portable Tablesaw is Bigger and Better Than Before, Moisture Issues from an Outdoor Concrete Slab, Podcast 555: New-Build Questions, Low-Down Lasers, and Drying Behind Tile, Podcast 555: Members-only Aftershow Talking with Keegan McAuliffe of Capra Home Concepts, Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, Fine Homebuilding Issue #313 Online Highlights, The Fine Homebuilding Interview: James Metoyer. Fasten panels using 8d ring-shank nails or other code-approved fasteners. What is a 'shiner'? I'll continue to glue and nail with ringnails, on the proper pattern my buddy Cag told you about. Is tongue and groove necessary for subfloor? Screws create stronger joints and are also less destructive. This may require more time than a nail gun. Due to their structure, they can easily penetrate the plywood without requiring excessive force. You need a screw which isn't fully threaded so it pulls down properly. Therefore, you should settle for steel screws for your plywood project. The model has a dull luster which is due to the xylan coating. They pull the plywod down tight, and that forces the glue to spread out. Using nails without an air nailer will also prompt you to hammer them into the plywood. From tight spacing to improper fasteners, simple errors can lead to callbacks. Founded by Hubert Miles, Certified Master Inspector. I mean, couldnt one then treat the floor like the Spruce Goose and remove all fastners once the adhesive is doing its job? With an air nailer, you can drive in multiple nails at one instance. However, using deck screws to attach your subfloor is not necessary. Nails, with their smooth shanks, are more likely to simply pull out of it. I would personally go with the screws for the simple reason that they make a better "clamp" but if you are choosing between the nails/screws and the glue- loose the glue. Driving a nail into a 112 year old joist simply does not have the same holding or clamping power that nails do. On a tight budget? Most manufacturers recommend 1/8 inch at panel ends and edges. 1) Nails have much greater shear strength and are better than screws when that is a concern, for your application screws are fine. I also plan on gluing down each sheet. Suppose you decide not to use nails; screwing is the next option. There are also other critical considerations, such as tapered or not. Pressing the Escape (ESC) button will close the modal and bring you back to where you were on the page. They create an airtight seal against any moisture or animal intrusion from beneath. 2) No. If the plywood is an inch or less, a 2-inch screw should work well enough since it will go about 1 inch past the bottom board and penetrate the joist below instead of just sitting on top and coming loose. Most of the commonly used screws in wood projects are steel-made. Thus, the driver has a firmer grip on the screw facilitating the delivery of extra torque. Glue and screw is popular for more reasons than just rhyming You're going through this effort to make it right. Screws are superior in terms of reducing floor squeaks, but the installation is slower. Next, you should explore which one is most durable/has the better holding power for your application. If there is an application where I have to use screws in a floor (such as in decking), then I also use a type that lock-in so they don't back out from years of vibration. Hammering nails will destroy the soft plywood or OSB. At Lowe's and HD, the smallest exterior screw they had (be it phillips, star, or square drive) was 1-1/4" (too . One downside to pneumatic nailers is that they make it easy to put in a whole row of shiners and not know it. The direction of the joists will most likely be the shortest path between two load bearing structures and perpendicular to load bearing walls. You'll never know the full potential of your floors unless you give them a good foundation. Screws usually form a better bond between materials, but there are some other options to consider. When it comes to finishing up your floor installation in record time, you need tools like the framing nail gun mentioned above. In high-traffic areas especially, this can cause your nails to come loose, resulting in creaks and sagging boards. Each one has different strengths and is best suited to different tasks. If the cutting step was accurate, you should have no issues here. It will result in weakening of the joint and ultimately creaking of the subfloor. Should I Use the Screw or Nail for Installing Subfloor? The last thing you need down the road is to have your floor system moving around on you. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Think of the fasteners used to attach a subfloor to a joist, where repeated deflections (that is the bending of the subfloor under a load) can cause a nail to work its way up and out of the subfloor over time. If you experience an issue, please check back later. Free shipping for many products! Rather than improving the connection, there is a high likelihood of weakening the plywood. Subscribe for unlimited access. Glue doesn't last forever. Simpson Strong-Tie WSNTL212R400 Screw for Subfloor - Strength When You Need It Review 3. Logic suggests the former.but if donelongwise there will be half as many unsupported T&G joints. This flexibility also makes them great for securing hardwood floors. When nailing down a subfloor, you need to use markings on the board. Think of the fasteners used to attach a subfloor to a joist, where repeated deflections (that is the bending of the subfloor under a load) can cause a nail to work its way up and out of the subfloor over time. Fasten panels to studs with 8d common nails spaced 6 inches along edges and 12 inches in the middle. They should be on the same level as the subfloor and never protrude. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Another plus is that finishing nails, with their small flat heads, are less visible than screw heads. Never use screws when doing underlayment. 1,000 2,000 1,500. Thus, they are fit for use in places with high humidity. Check for shiners underneath right away before the glue dries. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Simpson Strongtie WSV Subfloor Screw wty 1000 1 3/4 #9 HCKWSV134S at the best online prices at eBay! When applying pressure to the subfloor, the attachment with larger threads is less likely to come loose, pop out, or allow the subflooring to shift. Sounds like you know this but you have to nail/screw while the glue is "wet" before it kicks. Need to get your project done faster? Still, as with any product, missing steps or not following instructions when installingcan lead to mistakes. Manage Settings One other question.do you lay the 4X8 sheets perpendicular to the direction of the TJI's or longwise? The spiral part of the screw that enters the plywood during installation is the thread. They are sturdy and relatively cheaper than the old-fashioned tapered screws. In contrast, the shank of the screw has a spiral groove that yields much more resistance to being pulled out of the wood it has penetrated. Wood screws are the way to go when it comes to attaching and fastening down plywood. Your choice will ultimately depend on you. Screws are preferred over nails for subfloor and underlayment installations as they provide strong and tight connections that help prevent the floor from squeaking. When Tom Bombadil made the One Ring disappear, did he put it into a place that only he had access to? Even if you make a mistake during installation, it can remove screws. Same with the specified nail spacing. If you want to have an easier and faster time with this process, you should drill holes before going in with the screws. Don't wait for the carpet installers. Classes include professionally produced videos taught by practicing craftspeople, and supplementary downloads like quizzes, blueprints, and other materials to help you master the skills. Nails are one of the worst fasteners for preventing floor squeaks, and screws are a much better alternative. If you visually compare a nail and a screw, you'll see that the shank of the nails is smooth, assuming regular nails. #1 yes screws are more optimal. They can be used in wooden subfloors or metal framing where there are no pre-drilled holes available for installation. Nail and gluein combination. Deck screws will also cost more than the screws needed for your subflooring. Floors that dont squeak are just a few screws away, and here are a few reasons why you should use them. In this article, we'll go over all the important factors to consider when choosing screws or nails for subfloor installation. Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet lorem ipsum dolor sit amet lorem ipsum dolor sit amet. Nails are cheaper, faster to install, and easier to hide in finish details. If your joists are dry and you nail the floor right away when the adhesive is wet then the bond should last the life of the house. Consider opting for either high quality nails or screws to ensure durability and sturdiness for many years to come. One question which often pops up during construction or renovation projects is whether or not you can use drywall screws to secure the subflooring. However, the Torx does not prompt the driver to come out like the Robertson drive. Thanks for the detailed info. Fasten each panel fully as you go to ensure full adhesion and avoid movement and noise down the road. Consider that an pneumatic air gun and collated nails for quickly driving in nails. Its shape means that the driver introduces immense torque. Some subfloor panels come with built-in notches to help drain water. So you are basically doing more work for slightly slightly more hold. At this point, the floor should not shake, sink or produce any squeaking noises. Nopes, I have better things to do. I'm a licensed Home Inspector, Certified Professional Inspector (CPI), Certified Master Inspector (CMI), and FHA 203k Consultant. If your floor joists or trusses are 24 inches on center, youll need 36 screws per 48 sheet. Ensure you have protective goggles and heavy-duty gloves to protect your eyes and hands, respectively. Use an electric drill or screw gun to work quickly. Do you want to prevent floor squeaks? Screws are a great alternative that you can easily remove, but they are not as sturdy. Here are some of their pros and cons: Here are all the good and the bad characteristics of using screws on your subfloor installation: Nails are an essential tool in construction and homebuilding. The next step is to layer on sheets of cement board with screws that you place at about 6-inch intervals to be fastened securely into both layers. Even if the pressure becomes extreme, they will bend rather than snap (as screws often will as they are typically made of hardened steel). A screw has a larger thread for gripping the surface of the flooring, allowing for much less wiggle room. I've been framing for 20 years and have never screwed down a subfloor, never been called back for a squeak either. Place these screws no more than 18 inches apart to keep it from warping. Nails will do the same but not quite as effectively. They are among the most time-efficient types, especially for big projects. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. This is where nails excel. If it were my house I would go ahead andtighten upthe spacing a little. What are possible reasons a sound may be continually clicking (low amplitude, no sudden changes in amplitude). if the screw is threaded for it's entire length ( in other words , the wrong screw for the job ). and there is incomplete contact between the subfloor and the joist.. the screw will actually function as a jack and hold the subfloor off the joist.. a 2d occurence is if the mechanic is unfamiliar with the screw gun .. and there is insufficient contact between the joist and subfloor.. the screws will NOT pull them together i have never seen sheets being glued and nailed off with the correct nail , at the correct spacing, in the correct sequence.. where the results were unsatisfactory modern construction adhesive will hold beyond the strength of the two materials it is bonding basically the question of screwing subfloors seems to be one of opinion.. it is my opinion that a quality floor system doesn't rely on screws to performMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore. This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google. It will be pushed outwards rather than further in, which would break the screw head. Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. your inbox. You dont need to use either screws or nails on concrete subflooring because it is poured as a solid reinforced slab. will nails be a better choice for me? You need to ensure that the screws go through the floor joists as well. Screws have the added benefit of not backing out and causing floor creaks when walking on the floor. Thus, for more insights on plywood and OSB screws, keep reading. This is especially true when you dont drive the screw flush against the wood enough. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. The drywall screws have a lot of thread to hold the drywall itself, but have very little shear strength. But its essential to choose the correct fastener type based on your subfloor thickness. Glue some two by to some ply with good aliphatic resin glue, and break the sample a couple days later. Like any wood product, OSB will expand and contract after installation; without a small gap between panel ends, the expansion could cause buckling. The Pros and Cons of Using Nails or Screws for a Subfloor, Comparing Nails Vs. Screws for Installing a Subfloor, Quick Overview of How to Properly Lay a Subfloor, Common Questions About Screwing and Nailing Down a Subfloor, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AffeXXmFLg, Subfloor Installation: Gluing, Placing, and Nailing Subfloor (2/3) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AffeXXmFLg), Types of Subfloor Materials Used in Construction, How to Safely Notch or Drill Floor Joists (& Alternatives), Load-Bearing & Non-Load Bearing Walls: Whats the Difference? You can fasten the screwing when you use an auto-feed screw gun, but it still does not match up with the nail gun regarding speed. I don't agree that you can take the nails out after the glue has dried. For example, ring shank nails are a popular choice for sub-flooring due to lending excellent grip and holding power. Avoid rot and split wood by positioning butt joints on a flat block with a dado for drainage. The best way to build a sturdy raised bed is by using plywood for support. This sized plywood floor needs careful support, so it is best to use a 1-inch screw. The extra torque on the plywood will drive the screw further inside, enough to make the head countersink. In all cases, the detailed panel trademark stamp should be installed downward so they can be examined during inspections.