And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. Can we go to the site. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred. More than 450 Facebook users as of Thursday had shared a photo Marc Weir posted Wednesday showing the big cat and . I'll send it to you. Theres tracks everywhere. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. The sightings have not been confirmed; in fact, there have been no confirmed mountain lion sightings in New Hampshire since one was shot and killed on the seacoast in the 1850s, said Patrick Tate . So what a neat experience. The next week, on June 11, the cat was hit and killed by an SUV on the Wilbur Cross Parkway in Milford. John thanks. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. Peter Biello: Hmm. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. We've met Fish and Game's BURDEN OF PROOF. for some excitement. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. A lot of times. I mean they're a survivor. They were able to do all that by genetics. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. There was a lot of DNA evidence. Peter Biello: Wow. Sean McDonald. Border They sent it already. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. Thanks very much. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Give today. To date most of the pictures that have been sent in have been bobcats and other species Ive received pictures of house cats. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal . On June 9 2021 I saw a Mountain Lion along the Connecticut river in Clarksville New Hampshire . That's pretty elaborate. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. Oh you saw him online. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. Information that weed family automotive dot com sunny for today high temperatures low to mid 80s clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s tomorrow sunny highs in the upper 80s. Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. I mean it wasn't your idea. brings a lot of. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. Women control our lives. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? Artculos cientficos; Artculos de divulgacin; Menu The American Lion The Saber tooth Tiger and this was the one that survived. I'm Peter B yellow. Deer manages to free itself from the claws of a mountain lion in Alpine, California. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. Thanks for your call. And Rick Van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. Thank you very much for being here. State officials have said, over and over in recent years, that the eastern mountain lion has been completely wiped out from the Northeast. Just. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. In Vermont, it was 1881. This is a list of known or suspected fatal cougar attacks that occurred in North America by decade in chronological order. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. And those are not the same things. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. Thanks for a great thanks. Yeah I did. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. May 18, 2012 Mountain Lion Killed In Conn. The cougar is also commonly known as mountain lion, puma, mountain cat, catamount, or panther. This animal, IMHO, was probably live caught as an adult from the wild and brought to the . Caller: I have yeah. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. Caller: Are probably. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. She is renowned for tracking. The evidence for the 1874 cougar is so hard that it's held in a display case in the State Museum of . Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. But no proof was offered. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. The experts' take on what happened last Saturday when a mountain lion killed one cyclist and injured another outside of Seattle. So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. Yes and you want to share what you learned. Why are there so many false positives? And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. State officials confirmed the presence of a mountain lion near the Quabbin Reservoir in the late 1990s. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. Think you've seen a mountain lion? I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. No doubt in my mind it was. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. Home; Archivos. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. Join as a sustainer and support independent local news for your community. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. Novartis sold $1.1 billion worth of Gilenya in the U.S. last year, a 19% drop from 2021 that was caused in part by generic competition, according to . Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. Caller: Absolutely. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. I didn't see him online. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. We're gonna talk about sightings in this part of the program as well we'd love to hear your story. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain lion sightings in the Northeast, although most have been thought to be escaped captive animals. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. m from a weed family Automotive on store Street in Concord is serving the Concord area families automotive needs since 1995. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. Kansas officials think a mountain lion recently roamed through Shawnee County. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. For evidence of a free-roaming, wild and native mountain lion, we must look back to 1874. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. It was some sort of a Lion Mountain Lion animal. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. Sort of dropped onto the SD card of a camera he'd set up out in the wild. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. Wes Siler. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. There was no sign of it. The report came in from a conservation officer. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. He said matter of fact I do. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. There are corollaries in other states. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. I can't. I don't know if she still is. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. Does not test random Scouts. Rick van de Poll: Yes. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. OK. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. MicroBios. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. The Idaho Department of Fish and Game last week killed a mountain lion that entered a Hailey family's chicken coop, marking the third time the agency has killed a mountain lion in the Wood River . Peter Biello: Ok. Have a photo. Well within there. It was killed in Lee New Hampshire in 1853. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. Have it reported down in the Keene area. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. Patrick Tate: No downward pressure at all I think actually Sean turned up and we found the evidence there a number of people would finally say finally we can put this debate to bed. And they were using all the habitat. There's no attraction. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. Now that to me seemed to indicate that they had done the secondary workup that in my opinion proved the existence of probably a disperse or possibly from South Dakota like the one in 2011. Fish and Game then deny the evidence. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. Like why would you want one wildlife. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. Tell us your story. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. Peter Biello: Or send us an email exchange at an HP board. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain. You know you have to have a license and it's hard to get that license a license to own a mountain lion. 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